antenna location discussion

[ke0me]

I'm sure I will get some good feedback from this post, so please respond with your comments (serious or funny).

I'm looking to get an antenna I don't have to keep setting up and taking down.
I pull a fifth wheel with a crew cab Chevy, but don't really want to operate mobile ( I already have my mental capacity at the limit just keeping it all between the white lines).

I'm thinking a little tarheel would work well. I'm just about all HF, so probably don't need 6 mtr, and need quick setup.


I'm thinking of 2 options:

1- mount tarheel in truck bed (front driver corner), keep antenna coax connection loose and just hook it to radio when I want to operate, can set up radio inside or outside trailer.

2- mount tarheel on ladder on back of trailer. Would still like option of operating inside or outside trailer (wife may want to watch TV, that wont be workable senario if I'm yelling my callsign to work some exotic DX, like Canada)

the second option seems the best since I think it would keep the antenna away from metal better than on truck bed.

However, how high will the tarheel be above the 5er? I don't want to smack any underpasses. Lay down bracket might help, budget is a concern also.

Constructive comments please!!!

[wa8yxm]

What is the trailer made of?

Fiberglass mount the Tarheal on a bumper mount (If the bumper is solid you can use a clamp on hitch, but if it's not you can bolt an extension onto the frame I can design it for you if you need (two "U" bolts with clamps and a flat piece of metal)

If it is Aluminum ... Ignore this post.

[N4MU Papi]

Living proof: I use a Tarheel 300A mounted just to the rear of the cab (F350 Lariat Crew Cab) on the lip of the bed (Breedlove extended mount with disconnect). I run the control line (choke at antenna!) and coax (coax choke right there at ant base) into the fiver and have the FT-450D set up in the bedroom. About 75 feet cable. It is not used in motion of course but with the Pickup parked to the rear of the RV. I also use the MFJ programmable tuner for 10 preset stops and it works great. Very pleased with the antenna...seems to be VERY good considering what and where it is and with 100 watts. I have been able to work most everything I hear except in pile ups (but I got a few of those too). Have a 1 inch wide ground strap from the mount to the side of the bed (attached under where the bungie lugs bolt to frame) and I think that makes a difference. Bottom line: Works well!

[rgschmid63]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in....I use an MFJ-2982 31' vertical mounted to the ladder on the back of my 5'ver about 1 foot above the bumper. It's in a 31' fiberglass telescoping mast, so I leave it mounted to the ladder and just remove the coax when ready to travel. Check my QRZ page for more details
73's KF5JWR

[N3LYT]

I would not mount a screw driver antenna close to the cab unless you can get the coil above the roof. I have seen some mounted on a tool box in the bed they to me are still a bit too close to the cab. Here is a HS antenna I bought at a ham fest for $50 and rebuilt on the back of my camper with my home made mount it folds down and every thing gets assembled on the ground then I raze the mount up and it gets pinned. I also have 24' of fiberglass poles for the 10,12,15, and 17 meter rotatable dipole.

[Gregad]

Ham Stick Dipole I use on a camera lighting tripod. Have this set of sticks tuned to 10 meter. My son uses it also and has Ham sticks tuned to other bands. All we have to do is un-screw ham sticks and screw in others. This picture was down in a valley and reached from MI to South America easily. Just fold it up, lay in the basement of 5er and away we go. Well it works for now.

KE8CEW

[JNeeleyW6ZKH]

http://www.openroadsradio.net/attachments/photobucket/img_14420_0_e9494e8df5faf61f2a87c68f176ca578.jpg
This is my Buddipole mounted on 18 ft Painters Pole attached to the ladder of my 5'er. Good for 40-10 meters, and use a iP30 Field antenna SWR Analyzer to set the coils with. Not the most ideal, but does work, as have worked VK-land with it while boondocking in the Mojave Desert of Calif., and running 10 watts. Must have been a perfect prop day, hi.

[fulltimers-47]

w6zkh looks good /w5dvahere lookin atbpdeluxe also 4 my 37fter nice picture (rick e mail [email protected] in mass now 73s rick(fulltimer-47)

[NN5I]

For DXing, I would say that the best location for an antenna is some place like Ascension Island. Baker or Howland Island would be good, too. Or Chad.

[N3LYT]

Here is the dipole on the fiberglass mast tuned for 17 meters. It all gets assembled on the ground then I just walk the mast up on the hinge arrangement on the bumper and put the pin in. The antenna is just about the same length as the trailer. It is guyed.

[wa8yxm]

I'd not mind going with those flag pole mounted buddy poles. but

To the O/P.. The Tarheel (Screwdriver) seems to be very popular among the RV set.. Likely for just the reasons you cite. I could support that decision.

[WA6CDE]

Well the question still is around... where to mount the antenna... on the RV, tow vehicle, ground.... where...

Here is my two cents worth... if you put it on the RV... you only have one option.. in the RV... but if you put it on the tow vehicle...then you have not only a mobile station but also can be used when parked. The problem also comes from where to mount the radio in the RV... seems most of them I have seen appear cluttered... and rats nest of wires... but, if mounted in the tow vehicle you have a normal installation.

The second most ideal spot would be on the ground or some sort of supported fixture to hang the antenna on.

Most of the people I have run with put the HF on the front bumper when pulling a 5th wheel or other... seems to work ok... others have a dual location... front, rear or on the RV...

Still others don't put the hf in the RV.. instead they have a hand held or some other small radio... that is perminate in the RV... and only use that for local contacts.

Another item I am seeing now is HF amps... some are the solid state other are just plane old home station amps... they all require some level of vibration dampening... if they are to last... but, remember.. with all that power.. your going to have a saturated field around the antenna... and others campers may not like you blanking out their TV or getting into their CB, radio, stereo... etc... so sticking with 100 watts seems to be the ideal power level... one might consider. GMAs WA6CDE

[gyropilot]

I use an MFJ-2982 31' vertical mounted to the ladder on the back of my 5'ver about 1 foot above the bumper. It's in a 31' fiberglass telescoping mast, so I leave it mounted to the ladder and just remove the coax when ready to travel.Hi rgschmid63,

How do you deal with the four 12' radial wires for this antenna?

Thanks in advance,

AA7US

[Radio]

Wooooot!

New guy alert! :welcome: gyropilot, jump in and join the fun!

[gyropilot]

Wooooot!

New guy alert! :welcome: gyropilot, jump in and join the fun!Thanks! I'm glad to be here.

I'm a full-time RV'er who just got started in ham radio a few months ago. I stumbled upon this forum while searching the Interwebs for an HF antenna solutions to mount ON my travel trailer.

After a lot of research, I've come to the conclusion some sort of vertical antenna is probably best approach from the standpoint of a quick/easy installation and staying within the confines of an RV park campsite. But I'm struggling with how to deal with ground plane issues. My travel trailer is wood and fiberglass.

I haven't been able to find a "magic" antenna yet. :)

73,

John

AA7US

[N3LYT]

I have to tell you about a friend's motor home he had issues with his roof leaking. We climbed up on the roof and found some pretty shoddy repair work and I noticed some aluminum tape forming a big "X" on the roof and buried under some effort to seal the roof was a 10" saw blade! The tape was stuck to the saw blade and it was being used as a ground plane enhanced by the aluminum tape! No Antenna but I can't think of any thing else the set up was used for. The antenna must have been fastened to the saw blade at some point.

[gyropilot]

...buried under some effort to seal the roof was a 10" saw blade!Nice!

Personally I prefer using a pizza pan, but that's just me. :rolleyes:

AA7US

[ke0me]

I tried using a pizza pan (steel) with a mag mount ant.

seems like there just isn't enough metal there to work well as a ground plane. the signal receive level was low and it seemed noisy, compared to another antenna ( both were verticals).

what would you think of attaching 4 radials, say about 16 Ft long to the pizza pan and mag mount?

questions:

1-ground mount or on top of trailer?
2-would adding an earth ground help? I have read that a single ground rod is virtually useless for rf ground.
3-i saw an article where the ends of the 4 radials were terminated with nails (or big tent pegs) to provide some ground connection (hopefully a bit better rf ground). Would that help also?

comments please, I want to have some ideas to play around with this summer.


PS - my first paying job was as a pizza maker for Shakey's Pizza Parlor (1968?) - so I can still make a pretty decent pie when needed.

[gyropilot]

I tried using a pizza pan (steel) with a mag mount ant.

seems like there just isn't enough metal there to work well as a ground plane.While the ol' pizza pan trick works well for VHF/UHF, it's not nearly large enough for an HF antenna. The noise you heard was likely common mode RF current coming back down the coax as it (the coax) was forced to become the missing half of your antenna due to the lack of an adequate ground plane. This seems to be a typical problem when trying to cut corners with HF antennas.

what would you think of attaching 4 radials, say about 16 Ft long to the pizza pan and mag mount?At the RV park we're currently staying through the end of November, I really don't have room to run out ground radials. My nearest neighbor's RV is only 2.5' from mine on one side!

Around the beginning of December we'll begin boondocking for several months out in the desert north of Yuma at the BLM's Imperial Dam LTVA (http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/recreation/camping/LTVA/imperial.html). Out there I'll have plenty of room to set up an HF antenna separately (away) from my travel trailer. On my short list for this is a Buddipole (http://www.buddipole.com) antenna system using a dipole for 10M or 20M and a vertical on the lower bands mounted on either 8' and/or 16' guyed masts. I'll also be able to run out ground plane radial wires without any problem.

After establishing a performance baseline using some of the Buddipole antennas erected away from our travel trailer, next I plan to experiment with some of the same antennas (particularly the verticals) mounted to our ladder of our travel trailer on top of a painter's pole. I'm going to experiment with draping the ground radials down and then around our travel trailer (maybe in a spiral fashion to contain the footprint) and see what happens to the antenna performance.

PS - my first paying job was as a pizza maker for Shakey's Pizza Parlor (1968?) - so I can still make a pretty decent pie when needed.I'm craving pizza just thinking about it!

73,

John
AA7US

[N3LYT]

Every thing attached to my camper radio etc. is grounded to the frame work the.power line ground from the camp ground is grounded as is your 120 volt panel box so you may actually have a pretty good ground plane.

[ke0me]

this is kind of highjacking of the thread, but its an antenna question.

for a number of non-serious reasons, we have stopped full-timing for 6 months to be with family in Colorado.

So, today we signed an apartment lease, window sill is about 12 FT off ground, with pine trees close enough to sneak a random length wire out to a tree.

Assuming the DW allows the radio inside the living room, any thoughts about antennas?

we are on level 2 of a 3 level apt bldg.

will a tvi filter be enough to stay out of cable and satellite systems ? Will the problem more likely be in less than adequate shielding in all those Part 15 electronics out there?

where can I get a decent rf ground? not sure if water pipes are copper or plastic, haven't been inside yet.

OR, I could just go out to the storage yard where the trailer is stored and run the generator and operate without anybody around for hundreds of yards.

Just trying to have some ideas for some antenna things to play with over the winter.

[NN5I]

where can I get a decent rf ground? not sure if water pipes are copper or plastic, haven't been inside yet.

That, at least, is easy to check. Use an ohmmeter between the faucet and an electrical outlet's safety ground (not the hot or neutral). If the pipes are metal into the ground, there will be some connectivity; if plastic, basically an open circuit.

Anything less than 1KΩ or so, just about gotta be metal.

In any case it won't be a good RF ground even if copper; but it may serve as a counterpoise anyway. That way, you can help the neighbors wake up in the morning by making their faucets hot with RF.

[ke0me]

Carl,

The image of my neighbors getting a buzz from the faucets gave me a good laugh to start the day. :-)

I'm just hoping that I don't get a lot of stray RF floating around.

We don't move in til Dec 12, so we have a while to get organized.

Stay tuned for updates!!

[NN5I]

... neighbors getting a buzz from the faucets ...

Toilets, too ... :whistle:

[JNeeleyW6ZKH]

Well have arrived (yesterday) at my boondocking site here in the Mojave Desert near Ridgecrest, CA, and due to the winds blowing 30-35 mph, havent been able to put up an antenna as of yet. Suppose to die down tomorow, but we've heard that before out here... Will use RBN (reverse beacon network) to test signals, if and when I get it going...:radio::radio:

[NN5I]

... Supposed to die down tomorow ...

The wind? Not you, I hope.

[ke0me]

Pretty much decided to go with a little tarheel II antenna for the RV.

Considering mounting a fiberglass/PVC pole on back of 5er (I have lots of support points-ladder, bike rack) to allow the bottom of the antenna to be just above the roof line.

5er construction is aluminum framing, fiberglass and foam bonded panel walls. I assume, although I cant find any on line info, that the roof trusses have some aluminum in them also.

So, where would be the best place to try and develop an RF ground plane for the antenna. NOTE: I say ground plane as I think I need to create an image for the "missing half" of the antenna, so hope that is the correct term.

I have read the K0BG website, and I'm trying to see where I can attach the braids required to bond the frame work of the trailer to the antenna.

The tarheel manual doesn't really cover ground plane requirements
I think a couple of you have screwdriver type antennas, so any help is appreciated.

PS - mounting the antenna on the truck is not planned at this time, just want to operate as MP (mobile parked).

[JNeeleyW6ZKH]

I guess I never got around to telling the story on this operation, so anyway, I finally did get the vertical up in the wind and I did check into the West Coast RV net on 40 meters. Conditions werent the best but at least they heard me. We are about ready to head out for the summer time trips and wanting to come up with something more stable than the mount I had made for the Nov trip, I got to looking at the RV rear and it has a 2 inch hitch mount built in. Went down to Harbor Freight looking for a sleeve to slide in and then just weld a pipe vertically for holding up the antenna. Well they didnt have what I was looking for but did have a hitch mount for a Vise (item 66260) which has a square plate welded to it for mounting a vise. Got it home, mounted a 1-1/4" floor flange plate to it and then screwed in an 18" galvanized pipe. Hit it with some Rust paint and presto....strong and removable mount. Havent tried it out yet, but that will come soon. Can always fall back to the Buddipole if needed.

http://www.openroadsradio.net/attachments/photobucket/img_15092_0_e848269e1428dc413d3e1b1d1d1bf856.jpg

[NN5I]

That looks really strong, John. I'll bet it works well.

[JNeeleyW6ZKH]

That looks really strong, John. I'll bet it works well. It seemed to Carl.... mounted the vertical antenna to it (clone of Comet BHA-250b) this morning, hooked the Icom 7200 w/MFJ tuner and fired it up. Loaded okay on all bands except 75 meters. Condx very poor today here but did hear Steve N5YRJ down near San Diego on 40M AM, so gave him a shout and he said my sigs were decent, even with QSB. I was running 35 watts of carrier with that ricebox. Infact, the vertical element was actually touching a few limbs in the tree, but didnt seem to matter. I was just going to go out and test it somemore, but the thermometer just hit 110 !!! dont think so, hi...