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w7wv
02-18-2008, 03:19 PM
I found this post in response to a post about whether to use CB, FRS, GMRS or Ham Radio for communications on an RV forum.
I thought you might enjoy this idiot and what he had to say. Enjoy but don't spit out your beer! :popcorn:

"FRS would be the way to go. The ham band is line of sight also and very expensive...license is no charge. You would probably have a 5 watt HT with a range very close to the FRS. For less than $60 you're on the air vs. perhaps $600 for the 2 meter sets. If you're looking at a vehicle install you could go with the 50 watt HT and get up to maybe 15 miles line of sight...but again very expensive plus passing the FCC exam."

I added my responses about only line of sight. (I assume he never heard of a repeater)
I queried him about a 50 watt HT!:confused:, the license being free and the $600 for a two meter rig.
Idiots are everywhere. :think::D

Andy N1ORK
02-18-2008, 03:47 PM
Hey Good Buddy, I got me two of them there FRS/GMRS radios and it goes much farther than those expensive 2meter jobs!

Hi!!! Hi!!! You guys crack me up! I guess a little bit of information can be dangerous.
73!
Andy - N1ORK

w7wv
02-18-2008, 04:07 PM
Hey, I just found out he is a currently licensed Extra and has been since before 1991 anyway.
I think he is either out of touch with reality or trying to discourage someone from getting into ham radio.:think:

k3mp
02-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Some people just want to take the easy way out. Just like the ARRL did with the code requirements so the maufacturers can sell more equipment. Didn't work, did it!!! Made many friends using CW. But one can only promote ham radio so far...when they hear you have to take tests and study...that's out of the question...

wa8yxm
02-19-2008, 07:05 AM
Some people just want to take the easy way out. Just like the ARRL did with the code requirements so the maufacturers can sell more equipment. Didn't work, did it!!! Made many friends using CW. But one can only promote ham radio so far...when they hear you have to take tests and study...that's out of the question...

Now that is 1: Just plain mean and 2: not quite factual

The ARRL did not do away with code. In fact they do not have the authority to do away with (or require) code. the FCC did. And the FCC did not do it at the ARRL's Request. Though the ARRL did, for political reasons that benefit all of us, aggree to support the FCC action, it was the FCC's decision, not the ARRL's

The decision to REQUIRE code in the first place had nothing to do with ham radio but with the ARMY. (Well Military in general) The code requirement was there because the military wished to have a cadre of trained CW operators they could "Tap" (Draft) in time of war.. And they have, many times.

Back in the 1960's about 40 years ago, the Military stopped teaching code, and now, 40 years later, the FCC caught on and has stopped requiring it.

However: Lease anyone thing an Extra class license is easier to get today than it was in oh, say 1970. Back then you had to know CW. Today, Rocket science. Yes, there are questions in the extra exam pool which are genuine rocket science and it is for sure you will be asked at least one of them. Back in 1970 they did not ask those questions. So I'd not say it's gotten any easier, Even if I did pass on the 1st try (NOTE: I was not surprised when I passed I was well prepared)

But the code requirement was dropped because the Military no longer uses it. Had nothing to do with what the ARRL wanted. Had nothing to do with what I wanted. Just what the Army (and it's ilk) wanted

w7wv
02-19-2008, 08:11 AM
Are you sure the military has stopped using it?
I was a radio operator instructor in the Army 66-72 and they were still teaching 15 WPM encrypted groups to 05B/C types at that time.
And I think they still teach it today for intercept and such I know a guy who is younger than I that just retired and he was with the ASA and he was trained long after I got out of the service.
Many smaller countries still use CW today I am told.

KE5NWT
02-19-2008, 08:43 AM
I wish the Extra test was about proper proceedures, staion design and grounding, antenna design, propagation, and so on. I will never build radios, design circuits, build or repair amplifiers, ect. Just one look at the microscopic insides of radios nowdays explains why the "electronics" knowledge requirement is a thing of the past. I can clip a diode here and there for MARS mods, but even that takes a newtron microscope. Testing someone on grid capacitance, AND /OR gates, flux capacitors, x leading y 180 is, in my opinion, ludicrous. The days of resitors being 1/4 inch long where you could actuall solder them are gone. Now they look like a speck of salt or smaller.

Years ago when I took a week long school on how to operate police radar, we learned things like, width of the beam at x feet away, what could cause false readings, how to test for accuracy, how the beam saw the target.... not how to built the circuits, take them apart, create microwave generators.... The instructor put it this way "your not building the radar guns, you are operating them".

I have heard that more people are learning code now that it is not a requirement. I think the no-code test was a move in the right direction. I believe they need to rethink the sections in the extra test about the electronics, and make the operating, antenna building, proper proceedure sections of amateur radio more detailed and harder. The extra test should be hard, but not on things that most operators will ever do.

w7wv
02-19-2008, 02:50 PM
And all this time I thought my eyes were just going bad!
Yes, opening an electronic device today and attempting to work on it when you were trained on tubes can be an experience.
When I took a 4 year apprenticeship for the US Navy as a civilian to learn how to work on sonar, radio, radar and such I always wondered why they spent so much time teaching us design of circuits.
I did not think we needed to know that to work on the gear.

N7OQ
02-19-2008, 06:31 PM
Several topics going on here at the same time. I entered the Air Force in 1974 and was assigned to Keesler AFB, MS for Tech school and they had ditibop school there teaching the code(I was not in it) and the guys would talk to each other using CW at the chow hall or BX, any place on base. You would hear Da dit all the time.

At tech school I learned how to fix Radar and Navigation systems, the first part of the course was basic electronics. Tube theory was easy to understand but when we got into Semi Conductors I just could not under stand why I had to know the physics of how a transistor worked, you know the whole hole theory thing. To this day I believe I could have done with out all that theory and still repaired electronic circuits.

As far as new hams go these days, well I think we get a mix of talent, a lot of Technicians and Engineer types have come into the hobby who might not have due to the code but on the same toke we are also getting some not so radio smart guys. I have heard discussions on the local repeater that make you wonder how these guys got their ticket. I have heard one guy telling the other guy to turn up his volume because he was not making it into the repeater very well and the other guy saying OK. Another one has a J pole on a rotor and swears it is a directional antenna. I tried to explain to a Ham that the s-meter reading he is getting is the signal strength of the repeater transmitter and not the strength of the guy he is talking to and he augured with me, I gave up. So I guess you get the good with the Bad.

Vette Racer
02-19-2008, 10:07 PM
What the original poster said is very true althrough I find it hard to believe that a "extra" person didn't know any better than that but its possible. I am one of those no code generals and proud of it. No, I don't know everything but I do enjoy using the privilege that the license gives me to learn the different aspects of ham radio and I do learn, everyday. I was involved in Crypto in the military and I really think that the tests do need to change to respect the fact that we do not build, repair, and troubleshoot most of our equipment nowadays. We instead need to learn more about dealing with the antenna systems, the digital side, and stuff like that.

I do find that Ham radio is a disappointment in that I thought that things were restricted as far as language and such and found that to not be true. I really get disgusted with things like that that seem to go on all the time on 75-80 and some on 40. I find that the best operating people are found on 2 meters, I guess its because they are new, have read and just passed their tests and therefore know what they should and shouldn't do. The problem seems to be with the old timers that feel they have the right to speak/cuss
as they want to. Anyway, just my outlook as one of those no code generals.

W6DCS
02-20-2008, 12:21 AM
I do find it believable. I was on 6 meters the other day and overheard 2 old timers talking about how "Those no code folks are on our bands and think this is CB radio". According to them it is because of the no code requirement, and the requirements need to be what they had to study to pass. With vanity calls it is hard to tell who is new and who is old, until they tell you how they built their first radio. I did have to pass a code test to get my novice, and don't regret it. I don't mind they changed the rule to no code, as I probably would have been licensed earlier. Code or not, the reason was to allow more folks to get licensed. The original club I belonged to, and many others have folded due to lack of new folks wanting to get a license. Code or no code are both allowed in my campsite, and I will talk to either.
As for the testing, general knowledge is good to know, but today's rigs are built on circuit boards by robots. Most are not user repairable anyway. Other than basic electronic design knowledge, antenna design, rules and propagation, the rest is a bit useless.

wa8yxm
02-20-2008, 07:38 AM
Everyone I have who knows says the military is no longer requiring code, I'm not sure of the date they stopped teaching it however. Now: they may still offer code in some schools as an "Elective" but it's not required any more..

I do recall a few years ago (Well perhaps a few decades) the CIA was advertising for CW operators (IN QST no less) I don't know how much response they got from the ham community. CIA's code of "Don't talk about your work" and ham radio are kind of opposed. But some folks can do both. I have things about my job I don't talk about on the bands.

w7wv
02-20-2008, 11:56 AM
I have just been told that most services don't even have radio operators as such any longer.
I guess even the military has become appliance ops now.

wa8yxm
02-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Though there are few, if any, restricitons on language, In much of the country you will find Hams to be a lot nicer than some of the other folks out there with radio..

Dare I, (Who spent 25 years as a PROFESSIONAL radio operator) say that has tend to be more professional. (Which is how I'd describe it)

Our nets are better run

We tend to be more polite

And so on.

However, there is an old saying "There's always at least one bad apple" and Trust me, Nobody has a lock on them, both in and out, There are folks EVERYWHERE who seem to get their jollies by being pains in the anatomy.

We just do our best to encourage them to ... Shape up or ship off.

k3mp
02-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Sorry if I started a catastrophe about the code, but it sure bothered me when I studied and worked hard, yes I got on every night with a few of my elmers on 10M and worked on the code...I did learn it and do enjoy using it...for those that do not care for it so be it, but its another language added to my belt. I was a radioman in the Navy in 1972 - 1975, code was taught only if you re enlisted for another 2 years so they could send you to sub school. No thank you...38 months on the ship and 28 months at sea was good enough for me. I did eventually learn CW on the ship and left the navy with this. Although I did not become a ham until 19 years after I got out of the Navy I am sorry that I did not know about ham radio sooner. Yes I do know it was the FCC that changed the rules and am sorry if I caused a rift among us. That is not what ham radio is about, but these are just my feelings. I hated CW in the Navy but do enjoy it now. I feel that most clubs are more 2mtr repeater clubs than HF clubs anymore. Once again that is my opinion and that of many of the older hams...btw...the navy did away with the Radioman rating about 3 years ago...they are now called information specialists...combining the RM and CYN and another rate....as someone metionedd earlier about the CIA looking for operators, I was approached by a friend at SPAWAR about 3 years ago and declined a 6 - 9 month stint in Hawaii...HOPEFULLY no hard feelings to all ........
73 de K3MP ... _._

w7wv
02-21-2008, 08:11 AM
I am beginning to think that both the old timers and ex military ops are about the only ones that use CW anymore.

k3mp
02-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Maybe, but it is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be....what also helps is if one has some sort of musical talent...to me its like music, especially when it gets over 25 wpm...once over 30 - 35 it may sound crazy, but for me the sub conscience takes over and you just go with the flow...can't explain it any other way...

w6pea
02-21-2008, 01:18 PM
Yea just drive down any Interstate Highway or freeway.(a california thing):think:
cell phones abound.

Dizzy-Dick
02-21-2008, 02:27 PM
I was against dropping the code, but I can see why it was done and can accept it. What really bothers me is even before they dropped the code completely, anyone could get a copy of the question pool, then they ddin't have to understand anything, just memorize it. When I took my extra, I got 100% on the written test but flunked the 20 wpm code test. That is why I am still an Advanced. Back when I got my general, I had to go to the FCC office. That was a hassle!!

I was one of those who built my first rigs, even though they were kits, it was definetely a learning experience. It is a shame that we have become "out of the box" hams. Sort of miss something that way.

73's

Richard Stouffer
02-21-2008, 02:37 PM
Yea, a good reason not to hang out on 75 meters. I've heard several QSO's that made me feel embrassed that hams would talk like that, especially the racist comments. If anyone wonders why younger folks aren't interested in amateur radio, some of the stuff on 75 meters is a pretty good reason.

k3mp
02-21-2008, 02:45 PM
I flunked my 20 three times...and after each time I flunked it I went to our club shack and was working my CW partners at 25 - 30 wpm...the VE's came into the room and wanted to know why I flunked the test and could send and receive at those speeds...told them I hate taking tests...I just freeze when taking them...the 4th time was the charm...but I did not give up...I think the written advanced was the toughest test of them all...so much for this...everyone just enjoy the modes you like

TXiceman
02-21-2008, 09:12 PM
I think some of the old timers have forgotten what common courtesy really is. Last week during the School Club Round up, I heard a ham respond to a call from a school in Wagoner, OK. The fellow running the station was doing a great job and seemed to be enjoying it. The old timer...after I looked up his call, he was an extra, was telling the young man he was operating on a net frequency and had better plan to move off of it in about 10 minutes as they (sounded like he included) would blow him off the air with all or the 1K amps.

Seems he has forgotten the basic operating principle that no one owns a frequency. They could easily shift their net up of down a few KHz and let him keep his frequency. Or they could politely ask if he could move...not threaten him. Very rude person.

ken

N7OQ
02-21-2008, 10:21 PM
I think some of the old timers have forgotten what common courtesy really is. Last week during the School Club Round up, I heard a ham respond to a call from a school in Wagoner, OK. The fellow running the station was doing a great job and seemed to be enjoying it. The old timer...after I looked up his call, he was an extra, was telling the young man he was operating on a net frequency and had better plan to move off of it in about 10 minutes as they (sounded like he included) would blow him off the air with all or the 1K amps.

Seems he has forgotten the basic operating principle that no one owns a frequency. They could easily shift their net up of down a few KHz and let him keep his frequency. Or they could politely ask if he could move...not threaten him. Very rude person.

ken

This is a problem I have experienced myself, rude net operators telling me to go away because it was their new frequency or they just start the net right on top of you. There are to many nets to know who, when and where there will be a net. Then if you check into the net and are not one of the good old boys they will rush you along. OK got you have a nice day, next, but if it is one of the good old boys they can talk as long as they want.

I will take a impromptu round table over a net any day!

w6pea
02-22-2008, 12:01 AM
I think some of the old timers have forgotten what common courtesy really is. Last week during the School Club Round up, I heard a ham respond to a call from a school in Wagoner, OK. The fellow running the station was doing a great job and seemed to be enjoying it. The old timer...after I looked up his call, he was an extra, was telling the young man he was operating on a net frequency and had better plan to move off of it in about 10 minutes as they (sounded like he included) would blow him off the air with all or the 1K amps.

Seems he has forgotten the basic operating principle that no one owns a frequency. They could easily shift their net up of down a few KHz and let him keep his frequency. Or they could politely ask if he could move...not threaten him. Very rude person.

ken

I have had that happen to me on 2 meters.
I was calling for help at an auto accident(I was not involved) and this clown tells me and the other ham I was in contact with to get off of his freq. he was going to start a WAMO net.
What a joke.

w7wv
02-22-2008, 07:53 AM
Yes I know. I don't get on 75 or 40 very often.
I don't know why, I just never have with the exception of the "rock bound" days when I lived on 40 as a Novice in the 70s.
I find myself mostly on 17, 15 and 20. The folks on 17 are my kind of people. And no contests either.
Did dropping CW cause the problems we have today. I don't think so. More like a lack of self respect and discipline.
Life goes on.

Richard Stouffer
02-22-2008, 12:15 PM
I've never had a problem with 40. Every net I've broken into has welcomed me and each has been glad to have the company. I've made sure that before I broke it sounded like the kind of folks I wanted chat with or that I had something in common with that group.

I wouldn't even think of trying a break on most of the nets or QSO I'ver heard on 75.

W6DCS
02-22-2008, 02:41 PM
I thought nets were for the community, but some folks think net means my own personal chit chat line. I have never met a ham who disrupted a net "just because", but I am sure there are a few out there. Folks running a net need to realize that if it is a scheduled non emergency net one minds moving. What I hate are those who jump on and tell you "My net is starting in 10 minutes, so be done and be gone when it starts". I have had this happen a few times, but so few I can't count them on one hand. It is much nicer when they let you know in a friendly way.
I stay off a few 2 meter repeaters as there are some who think they own them.
I remember a few years ago I was traveling and needed the Highway Patrol for an accident that had just happened. I looked in the repeater book and could only find closed repeater that I could hit. I was able to get into it, and at first was told in a rude manner it was a closed system and I wasn't on the authorized list. When I explained what I needed the other ham made the phone calls on the landline. I even received an apology from him for being rude, but he said many times folks think they own it and are not members or supporters. I thanked him for the assistance and the repeater usage.
I belong to a closed system that spans a huge area, but have yet to see anyone on the system tell anyone to get off of it. We don't mind visitors, and as long as your friendly we don't bite.