Electrical Noise - Open Roads Radio forum for Ham, Amateur Radio and RV camping

radiow6lar · 01-03-2008, 02:42 PM

Anyone experencing noise in their HF rigs from their Power converters? I have a Progressive Dynamics 80 amp switcher and it does get some noise when it is powered up supplying 12 VDC for the TT and batteries. It is comming in to the rig (IC-718 and IC-706) via the power leads. If I run a Astron PS then no noise at all. I've tried two different units to no avail. They are both noisy. Its not a problem during the daytime when I can be on solar.

I also found some noise from my Honda EU-2000i but I was able to get it to quiet down.

N7OQ · 01-03-2008, 08:43 PM

Hi Larry,

I just got back form a camping trip and yes my converter is very noisy. I hear noise every 70 Khz and it moves so As I sit on one freq it will come and goes. I will install some caps and add some fairite chokes and see if I can suppress it. I also get noise from my Heater fan so a cap will go there too.

I also have a Generator that makes a lot of noise so much I cant used the radio while it is running. I bought the parts to to make a brute force filter so that is another project. My Generator is a Inverter generator like the Honda it is called a Kipor 3000thi it is a nice unit looks like a Honda 2000 but is yellow, very quite and will run my AC even at 6000 feet and weights only 65 lbs. So if I can get the noise out of it I will be very happy. I wonder how you took care of your noise?

W4DRR · 01-04-2008, 07:51 AM

I have a WFCO 55 amp converter in my Outback, and yes it is quite noisy, with harmonics every ~35KHz or so. It stays in our driveway, plugged in, and not very far from one end of my 75/40 dipole, so I am very familiar with all the spurs and harmonics. I have installed several "industrial strength" clamp-on ferrites on all the wires going into and out-of the converter, including the main AC feed. They are quite large, with some being mix #43, and the others mix #31, both good for HF suppression. Again we are talking "industrial strength" here, not el cheapo Radio Shack grade. Results: not that good. It has lowered the noise somewhat, but still not enough. My take on it is, much of the noise is directly radiating from the converter PCB and it's cheap magnetics, not just conducting on the wires. The only fix may be completely shielding the converter in a steel box.
And as Bill, N7OQ, mentioned, that bathroom vent fan is really bad. That thing could never pass Part 15 certification. Though I haven't tried it yet, a little in-line filtering on it would go a long ways. Something like a common mode choke and a couple of ~0.1uF caps maybe, right at the motor.

wa8yxm · 01-04-2008, 08:25 AM

I have, on occasion, tripped the breaker feeding my PD 9180 with charge wizard.

Did not notice any difference on the receiver. Don't know why mine is quite only know my rig is hooked to the main power distribution panel in the motor home. (Radio is in the room behind the panel, I think I had to add about 1 foot of wire to the factory supplied power lead) But all my 120 and 12vdc lines run through the cabinet the radio is bolted to!

radiow6lar · 01-05-2008, 09:04 PM

I tried a few things that did not go anywhere. I had a few Tripp-Lite Isobar filter strips in the ham shack. It has 4 isolation level outlets, 50 db, 75 db, 100 db and 120 db in a power strip rated at 15A. Has a plunger circuit breaker and switch on it. I shortened the primary power cord to just a foot and then plug it into my EU2000i. I then plug my TT into the 120 db outlet. My noise in the IC-718 almost cleared up completely. So that is what I am using when I run the genny and the HF at the same time with an analog 12vdc power supply.

I also tried grounding the banana plug nearest the "econo" switch to the ground point on the front panel.

I read about that on rv.net and it eliminated ALL the noise form the Honda. Don't try it to the banana outlet second from the "econo" switch as its the hot side.

So we are off to Joshua Tree National Park next week from Thursday till Monday to dry camp and just get away. Solar will be the norm but I will use the Honda if needed. I run two 250 A/H floor machinery batteries from Trojan and they seem to last forever. They are each 12V.

If the DW has not got too much planned I'll drag out the 718 and the screwdriver on the ladder and get on the air. I like to do PSK with a small dell laptop.

N7OQ · 01-06-2008, 02:24 AM

I will have to try this on my Generator I have a a ground and banana jacks for 12 volts out by the econo switch but will put a meter on it first to make sure I don't get the hot one. I had to use my gen all day today due to power loss from the storm we had yesterday. I was thinking about a Isobar power strip but want to run the AC too so need something with a little more current rating. Thanks for the info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiow6lar

I tried a few things that did not go anywhere. I had a few Tripp-Lite Isobar filter strips in the ham shack. It has 4 isolation level outlets, 50 db, 75 db, 100 db and 120 db in a power strip rated at 15A. Has a plunger circuit breaker and switch on it. I shortened the primary power cord to just a foot and then plug it into my EU2000i. I then plug my TT into the 120 db outlet. My noise in the IC-718 almost cleared up completely. So that is what I am using when I run the genny and the HF at the same time with an analog 12vdc power supply.

I also tried grounding the banana plug nearest the "econo" switch to the ground point on the front panel.

I read about that on rv.net and it eliminated ALL the noise form the Honda. Don't try it to the banana outlet second from the "econo" switch as its the hot side.

So we are off to Joshua Tree National Park next week from Thursday till Monday to dry camp and just get away. Solar will be the norm but I will use the Honda if needed. I run two 250 A/H floor machinery batteries from Trojan and they seem to last forever. They are each 12V.

If the DW has not got too much planned I'll drag out the 718 and the screwdriver on the ladder and get on the air. I like to do PSK with a small dell laptop.

W4DRR · 01-06-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiow6lar

So we are off to Joshua Tree National Park next week from Thursday till Monday to dry camp and just get away.

Not to hijack the topic, but will you be camping at Jumbo Rocks?

wa8yxm · 01-06-2008, 01:59 PM

One thing I wonder about.. You got a motor home, 232 amp hours (Minimum) of 12volt battery, and a big 12 volt converter to keep them charged.

WHY would you pay good money for ANOTHER 12 volt power supply to run the rig? IN my coach heaven forbid a power failure during my evening net, but, if it happens. I very likely will not even notice (Save for the power line noise that will vanish as it's only 35 feet from the power line to the rig-end of the antenna (135 to the other end)

In fact, it's happened

radiow6lar · 01-06-2008, 07:44 PM

I used the analog supply to get around the noise I was having when using the 9280 converter. I could just as easily stayed on battery power as I do have plenty of reserve.

W4DRR, I am not sure where we will be staying. Jumbo Rocks is not my first choice. Stayed once before and it was way too busy. I like Belle for one. A little further apart form other campers. Not to sure how busy it will be this coming weekend. We will be there on Thursday probably before noon.

Radio · 01-06-2008, 08:57 PM

I have an ordinary, inexpensive Wal-Mart car battery that I use for portible operations. I can run my TS-570 for days on that thing and then charge it up with jumper cables if I need to.

The battery is very clean as it has never been installed in anything. It's only drawback is it's rather heavy, but so are other things we take RV'ing. I'll probably figure out a way to mount it in the 5th wheel, out of the way, and have a totally seperate power system (ie: a battery, a charger, some wire and a fuse) for radio and computer applications. Might come in handy if the converter were to fail.

Just a thought.

Radio

radiow6lar · 01-06-2008, 10:48 PM

Actually I just checked the model number for the Trojan batteries I have and they are the J150 Plus. 150AH each. I have two in a custom aluminum box on the front of my TT that gives me 300AH. That should keep my HF going for awhile.

Andy N1ORK · 01-11-2008, 01:31 PM

Does anyone know of a good USA source for mix #31 clamp on ferrites?
Thanks!
Andy - N1ORK

Radio · 01-11-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy N1ORK

Does anyone know of a good USA source for mix #31 clamp on ferrites?
Thanks!
Andy - N1ORK

You might try MFJ. They have a selection of various clamp on ferrite filters/chokes. Don't know what the mix would be. Here though, you are not trying to build a tuned filter, just wipe out some noise on DC, so I figure whatever you can get your hands on might help.

Also, Kenwood (and others) make an in-line choke/RFI kit for the DC power input line of their (and other) radios. No tool plug in installation, and I have used them and they seem to work.

Radio

Andy N1ORK · 04-11-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote from Bob WD4RR:
"I have a WFCO 55 amp converter in my Outback, and yes it is quite noisy, with harmonics every ~35KHz or so."
I have the same model and problem so I contacted one of the company tech people at WFCO Electronics ([email protected]). They were going to offer a newer 'more sheilded' lower converter unit as a replacement with free turn-around of my existing unit. However, since I bought my camper used, they sent me a rebuilt replacement for free. They're pretty good to work with, and seem helpful but I had to emphasize the FCC part 15 to the warrantee folks before they made an offer.
Hope to have the new unit in place in May with some additional ferites and caps on the 12vdc and 115vac wiring. Will let you know what happens.
73

w6pea · 04-15-2008, 02:43 AM

Andy
Thanks for the info...I have that same unit in my Jamboree.....along with 8 house batterys and 2 chassis batterys and a couple of solar panels.

Andy N1ORK · 04-15-2008, 06:30 AM

Pat,
What do you mean by house batteries? By chassis batteries do you mean the one outside feeding the camper/rv 12v lighting? I have hookup to 115vac so use 12v switching power supply instead of direct to 12v battery. The solar panel is a great idea. I have a small one for trickle charging, maybe I'll hook it up and try it although the WFCO unit floats the battery pretty well (just too much RFI).
Andy

w6pea · 04-15-2008, 12:25 PM

Andy

By house batterys/coach batterys I mean the batterys that run all of the 12v dc items in the motorhome. Lights 12v TV porch light etc. etc. Outside entertainment center. (glorified AM/FM radio/CD combo) By chassis battery I mean the starting batterys. I also have my IC-2720 2m/70cm Ham radio hooked to the 2 chassis batterys. I have my IC-706MKIIG running off the house/coach battery set up.

Happy motoring.
73 w6pea Pat

radiow6lar · 04-13-2012, 01:30 AM

I know its been a long time from my first posts so here is what I ended up doing. I have a Samlex 600W DC to AC sine wave inverter in my TT. It is quiet as a mouse. I also run a Samlex 100Amp switcher at my repeater site and it is dead quiet. NO RFI! So this past week I find that Samlex makes a number of Converter/Chargers for the RV industry and they are also rated for just a power supply for shop work. I picked up a SEC-1245A, 45Amp unit and replaced the Progressive 80 Amp NOISY converter. Best money spent. Now there are no "birdies" or other junk in my RX signals. Just looking at the Samlex tells you its quality over the Progressive unit. Now I'm a Happy Camper.

wa8yxm · 04-18-2012, 10:54 PM

I have not noticed anything I could blame on the converter in the past, up till last week, when I did notice that a change in 12 volt load made one of the noises vanish.

So I will be following this thread.

radiow6lar · 04-21-2012, 05:08 PM

With my situation it was easy to hear the converter/charger going through the different modes when you manually switched them or when the loading changed and that was just on the AM radio. I did all kinds of lead filtering and then realized that was a waste of time. It was equally bad on my HF RX. So a few times I brought along an analog power supply to use as long as I had shore power. So for now we're in tall cotton. I've got two 9200 80 Amp converter/chargers to find a home for. Noisy or not they've got to be worth something.

Oh boy, leaving for Florida in about a week!

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